Neon & Vita - Ein angespanntes Verhältnis.

      Neon & Vita - Ein angespanntes Verhältnis.

      :flag-de: Hallöa, wäre euch sehr verbunden wenn ihr euch das ganze hier mal aufmerksam durchlest.

      Ich bin jetz ca. seit einem Jahr bei Vita und bekomme so also auch ganz viel mit wie z.b. das Verhältnis zwischen Vita & Neon. Es gibt Hass der sich bei den ein oder anderen immer mehr aufstaucht und offenbar auch auf andere abfärbt, auf beiden Seiten. Ich bin bis heute auf den "Hass-Zug" nicht aufgesprungen und habe keinerlei Probleme mit Neon oder den Leuten dort. Der Hauptgrund für den Hass aus Neon's Richtung ist wohl diese ständige "Copy Cat" Sache. Da will ich dann jetz aber mal einige Dinge klarstellen. Es fängt z.b. damit an das wir Vorwürfe aus Neon's Reihen bekommen das wir die Sache mit dem Let's Play kopiert haben. Das war bei uns eig. nur eine recht kurze Phase und hat sich recht spontan entwickelt als wir 3 (Sebi, Tobes & Ich) so ziemlich aus totaler langeweile nach ein paar Horrospielen gesucht die wir mal gleichzeitig oder sogar zusammen zocken können. Sind dann auf Amnesia gestoßen und habe halt die Idee auf ein LPT gehabt haben aber zu diesem Zeitpunkt keineswegs daran gedacht das Neon da in der Richtung auch was hat und wenn es so wäre hätte es uns auch nicht gestört. Des weiteren wird ja immer gesagt das Sebi sich da so Sachen abschaut von wegen Scripts und die dann in abgeänderter Version für Vita macht. Dazu ein kleines Beispiel. Würde z.b. einer eurer Scripter, nehmen wir mal Lexlo, jetzt unerhoffter Weise zu einem anderen Clan wechseln und für diesen Clan scripten, würde er sich bestimmt auch ein wenig an dem von ihn gemachtem Script für Neon orrientieren und es würde paralellen geben. Nun ist es ja so das das sich beide Clans seit nun mehr als einem Jahren ständig weiterentwickeln es aber dennoch paralellen gibt. Immerso Kleinigkeiten wo es dann heißt das das von Neon abgeschaut wurde. Natürlich sieht man durch den Hass den man hat immer mehr negative Punkte. Meistens ist es aber so das im Internen schon viel früher über die Idee der Scripts geredet wird bevor diese dann mit einem Update kommen. Meist wird schon viel früher darüber geredet als das man es bei Neon abschauen könnte weil das dortige Update diese Idee oder dieses Script noch garnicht enthält. Lexlo und Sebi haben vllt. in den ein oder anderen Punkten die gleiche Ideen aber auf Sebi wird soo ein Druck ausgeübt das er sich unter diesem Druck schon dazu entschlossen hat ein von 0 auf neues Script anzufangen welches dann das Ziel haben soll sich von dem Script von Neon "abzugrenzen" um den nun seit schon mehr als einem Jahr kommenden Kommentare auf ihn zu mildern oder ganz zum Stoppen zu bringen. Das heißt jetzt das Sebi ziemlich viel Arbeit und Zeitdruck hat, da er seiner Community auch natürlich etwas bieten will.
      Ich bitte euch nun evntl. mal euren ungeschürrten Hass (den es natürich auch bei einigen Leuten bei uns geben kann bzw. gibt) mal ein wenig dosierter freizulassen und euch nicht auf uns, sondern auf eure Entwicklung zu konzentrieren. Wir, Neon & Vita, sind 2 Clans die sich vllt. in einigen Punkten ähneln, aber solche parallelen wird man bei genauerem hinsehen auf jedem Server sehen. Ich bin mir oft darüber den Kopf am zerbrechen was man da machen kann.. wie kann man evntl. das Verhalten zwischen Vita & Neon sogut hochbringen, das ein friedlich aber nicht gemeinsames dasein möglich ist. Das es ja schon so weit das wenn es z.b. einen neuen in Neon oder Vita gibt der direkt, ohne überhaupt zu wissen was Sache ist, einen Hass auf den anderen Clan entwickelt. Würde mich freuen von von euch da evntl. noch ein paar Ideen kommen was man wegen diesem angespanntem Verhältnis machen kann oder was die Zukunft bringen soll. Das ganze ist ja mehr oder weniger unnötig und schadet ebendsoviel unnötig auch beiden Clans.

      Grüße,
      ExXoTicC. ;)

      :flag-gb: Hey people, I would be happy if you read my text.

      I am now in Vita since about a year and so I know alot of what is going on here with the relationship between Vita and Neon. There is hatred which is occuring more and more by people on both sides and which is probably soon gonna explode.
      I never hated any of both clans and do not have a problem with Neon or the people there. The main reason for the hatred by Neon against Vita is this "copycat" thingy.
      I want to clear some things up: It starts with people from Neon saying we copied things like the Let's play. This was a short phase of Vita which was really spontanous as we 3 (Sebi, Tobes and I) decided to play some horror games at the same time due to boredom. We then found Amnesia and I had the idea to play it together and upload this to youtube. I never thought about Neon having the same Let's play stuff and even if I had thought about it we would not have mind.
      In addition to that it is always said that Sebi copies things like the script and then does that in a little variation for Vita. Think about that: If your scripter, for example Lexlo, would change to another clan and would script for it he would also still make some things which would be a bit similar to Neon. Vita is a free clan since 1 year and we try to get further all the time but there are offcourse still things which are similar to Neon. Small things, which are then said that we copied them from Neon. offcourse you always see the negative things abotu the other clan due to hatred.
      Often it is that we already talked about a script idea in the internal forums some time before it gets released with an update. Often we are talking about ideas before Neon gets an update with ideas like these so we can't know about it. Sebi and Lexlo might have the same ideas in one or another point but there is so much pressure to Sebi that he even decided to script a new race script from nothing to seperate from Neon even more in order to stop this harrasment towards him which continues since one year. This means he has alot of work and time pressure because he wants to give his community something good.
      I would like to ask you to try to show your hatred towards us (which offcourse also could exist in Vita towrds you for some people) in smaller bits or to stop it, but to think about your own clan. We, Neon and Vita, are 2 different clans which might be simiilar in some points, but if you look closely you can see those similarities on every server.
      I often think about what we could do, how to improve the relationship between Vita nad Neon, that a friendly co-existence would be possible.
      Its already like that that a new player in Vita or Neon, without knowing what is really going on, already starts hating the other clan.
      I would be happy if you may have some ideas how to help this relationship or how we gonna continue this future.
      This whole thing is just unneccesary and does not help any of the clans.

      Greetings,
      ExXoTicC. ;)

      Post was edited 2 times, last by “ExXoTicC” ().

      English version would be nice, Google translator hardly makes any sense, but I get the idea...
      iShadowLTu

      [img]http://i49.tinypic.com/332yt53.png[/img][img]http://s16.postimage.org/odk6o57th/smaller2.png[/img]

      [img]http://s12.postimg.org/vs6mfd2t9/2616.png[/img]

      [img]http://www.upload.ee/image/3515455/SHADOW.png[/img]

      "I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code..."


      Maps by me for Neon Fun

      Click a name of a map to view its video.

      [table='Mode,Name']
      Fun DD[*]Neon Towers[*]
      Climbing[*]Highway to Hell[*]
      Fun DD[*]Neon Towers Simplified[*]
      Fun Racing[*]Fun Randomness[*]
      Fun Racing[*]Skilled Driver[*]
      Classic Race DM[*]Wet Work[*]
      Classic Race DM[*]Fasten Your Seatbelt[*]
      Classic Race DM[*]Beginning of Hell[*]
      Classic Race DM[*]HELL[*]
      Climbing[*]Neon Climbing (Work in Progress)[*]
      Trials[*]Sanchez Trials Extreme (Work in Progress)[*]
      DD Evolution[*](Work in Progress)
      [/table]
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      Post by “ExXoTicC” ()

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      I often translate german versions of any threads in english, but :
      dafuq, thats rly to much =(

      The whole meaning of this text is that Exotic have the suggestion to collect ideas
      how Neon and Vita could have a better ratio to each other.
      He made clear why Vita have some things which looks like
      things in Neon, and on and on
      Sorry if this wasn't the best explantory, but thats rly a big text, even for Transleetah

      Next time, please post an next to a german text also an english one
      or just an english text, not important .
      There are not only small things.
      What about the fun server? Vita ware? <.<

      Anyway, i always try to keep miself out of this.

      Anyway, you will always say you dont copy, and we will always say you copy... This is leading nowhere.
      [img]http://neon.neon-gaming.de/img/mechbars/fun/spast.png[/img]
      [img]http://neon.neon-gaming.de/img/mechbars/secondary_ranks/community_member.png[/img]
      "People already got banned for less." - Bass

      Post was edited 1 time, last by “F-22” ().

      I don't like vita not because of the server I mean it's okay 90% like neon but much more worse than neon but I don't like vita because of how they're acting. It's sooo anoying.
      Example: I mean you're copying much things from neon and you say that you're not. Much members (includes me) hate that.
      But I like it that Sebi is writing a new script which won't be like neon. (I hope)
      "Eine Enduro putzen ist wie Seiten aus der Bibel reißen!"

      [img]http://abload.de/img/picsart_1382014743255o5u0p.jpg[/img]
      The problem is when u say than sth like "You guys are copying everything" than u mean Sebi, not us.. and where the fuck in the world is the reason to hate us (members) when we never did anything? I mean you hate goes to us all from vita, also me. For example i'm joining the Neon Server and for an half hour i didnt wrote anything.. but in this half hour i read sth like "Hey ExXoTicC, are you here for copieing ideas again?!" or "Hey ExXoTicC, is your server to boring that you have to play here?" 100 times. BUT i never ever and ever did anything against Vita. Its just because i'm wearing the 4 letters in fron of my name..

      Rey wrote:

      But I like it that Sebi is writing a new script which won't be like neon. (I hope)
      I will first belive that when I see it, anyways when I will play anytime on Vita (even just 1 time xd)
      But yes, It's rly strange
      Vita has "Divisions", strange, makes me remember "Sections"
      The only difference between Vita and Neon I can clearly see
      is a RPG-server
      But the thing is if we say that sebi copys nearly everything then you ALL are defending him and thats the reason why I don't like you all.
      "Eine Enduro putzen ist wie Seiten aus der Bibel reißen!"

      [img]http://abload.de/img/picsart_1382014743255o5u0p.jpg[/img]
      :flag-de: Auf was du da anspielst ist das Gespräch zwischen Sebi und mir. Ich habe mit Sebi geredet und habe ihm als Ex-Administrator von Vita meine Meinung und Sachverhalte von der Seite Neons aufgezeigt. Was wir da besprochen haben ist eigentlich eher privat, aber wenn du unbedingt darauf bestehst, kannst du gerne Sebi bezüglich der Spannung zwischen den Clans oder wie du ihn nennst "unbegründeten Hass" von Neon hinterfrage.

      Ein Punkt will ich aber dennoch hier noch ansprechen: Neon's Hass ist nicht aus Eifersucht oder aus Willkür entstanden.

      Fangen wir mal an:
      Es gibt unendlich viele Beispiele wo einige Features von Vita den von Neon so stark ähneln, dass sie eine Parallele bilden. Da brauch ich erst gar nicht mit dem Mini Games Server anfangen. Da brauch man sich auch nicht streiten, dass sich da Leute wie Benne, die sehr sehr viel Zeit allein in den größten Schritt, die Ideenbildung, gesteckt hat, verarscht fühlen.

      Ich finde außerdem, dass Programmierer erst dann Programmierer sind, sobald sie ihre eigens inspirierten Ideen umsetzen. Ansonsten ist das für mich ein Laufbursche. Ich habe Sebi nicht gezwungen oder Druck ausgeübt, ich habe ihm lediglich gesagt, dass ich NIE wollte, dass so etwas aus Vita wird.

      Als ich Administrator von Vita wurde, wollte ich eigentlich, dass Vita eine Community wird und kein Clan, denn eine Community legt den Wert auf Spaß und nicht auf Gewinn und auf Konkurrenz. Sie machen nach was ihnen gerade ist und haben Spaß. Wenn aber Leute von Vita auf den Server kommen und neben den üblichen Kritiken am Script noch Beschwerden einreichen bezüglich des Verhaltens einiger Neon Member und ich darauf folgend sage, dass man das reporten soll und sehe trotzdem, dass die betreffenden Personen weiter machen, dann sehe ich hier nicht gerade die Community, die ich mir zunächst erdacht und erträumt hatte. Was aber Sense gegründet hat ist ein Schritt in die Richtung wie ich sie mir vorgestellt habe und muss dementsprechend lobende Worte für ihn aussprechen.

      Dass ich irgendwelche Sachen und Ideen von Vita zu Neon genommen habe ist eine schöne und lächerliche Erfindung. Besonders wenn man den Gedanken betrachtet, dass ich nach dem MySQL Grundaufbau geleaved bin und sonderlich viele Features nicht machen konnte. Außerdem nutze ich seit dem ich bei Neon bin das objektorientierte Scripten, andere Animations-Methoden usw.

      Zu den Ideen das angespannt Verhältnis zu entspannen lautet meine Antwort: Es ist zu spät. Du kannst das Verhältnis nicht beruhigen sondern sich nur zu distanzieren. Das heißt die Member müssen sich fern halten. Die Administrator aber müssen Ideen und Entscheidungen überlegt durchzuführen und darauf zu achten, was andere von einem denken und machen, denn die Konsequenzen können anscheinend so enden, wie sie momentan sind.


      :flag-gb: What you aim on is the conversation between Sebi and me. I talked with Sebi and I told him as an Ex-Administrator of Vita my opinion and showed him the issues from Neons site. What we talked about was actually private, but when you are so desperate to talk about it, you can ask Sebi about the tenseness between the clans, or bring the, how you call it, "hate for no reason", into question.

      But there is one point I want to talk about: Neon's hate isn't arose from jealousy or out of arbitrariness.

      Let me begin:
      The are infinite examples where several features of Vita resembles closely the features of Neon, that they frame similarities. And I think I don't need to start with the Mini Games server. And you don't have to argue that people like Benne, who put very much time in the biggest step, the ideation, feel pranked.

      And besides that I think that programmers are real programmers when they transcribe their own inspired ideas into something. Otherwise it's a footboy for me. I didn't force Sebi or I didn't apply pressure, I just told him, that I NEVER wanted, that Vita will become something like that.

      When I became an Administrator of Vita, I wanted that Vita will become a Community and not just a clan, because a community appreciates on fun and not on profit and competition. They do what they want to do and just have fun. But when people from Vita come on our server and besides the usual criticisms at the script they submit complaints regarding the behaviour of some Neon members and I tell him after that, that he should report that and I still see that the relevant people still go on, than I don't see the Community that I conceived and imagened. But what Sense founded is a step in the right direction how I imagined it and thus I have to laud him.

      That I took any things and ideas from Vita to Neon is a wonderful and ridiculous fiction. Especially when you sight at the thoughts, that I left right after the MySQL basic set-up and that I wasn't able to make many features. Also I use object-oriented scripting, other animation-methods, etc. since I am in Neon.

      To the ideas to wind down the tense relationship, my answer is just: It's too late. You can't allay the relationship, you can just dinstance from each other. That means the members have to keep away from each other. But the administrators have to execute ideas and decisions carefully considered and they have to pay attention to the things the other people think and do, because the consequencescan end as they are now.

      (Thanks to Bass for this translation and any complaints about the translation go to Bass)
      [img]http://steamsigmaker.de/state/lexlo.png[/img]
      "Man muss das Unmögliche so lange anschauen, bis es eine leichte Angelegenheit wird.
      Wunder sind dann eine Frage des Trainings."
      Albert Einstein
      Ich hab nie gesagt du hast etwas von Neon zu Vita genommen, hab also dies bezüglich nichts erfunden. Ich habe lediglich gesagt das wenn du jetz z.b. in einem anderen Clan wechseln würdest und dort scripten würdest, würden sicherlich auch parallelen zu Neon entstehen.

      Aber das war soweit alles was ich hören bzw. wissen wollte. Man sieht sich.

      ExXoTicC wrote:

      The problem is when u say than sth like "You guys are copying everything" than u mean Sebi, not us.. and where the fuck in the world is the reason to hate us (members) when we never did anything? I mean you hate goes to us all from vita, also me. For example i'm joining the Neon Server and for an half hour i didnt wrote anything.. but in this half hour i read sth like "Hey ExXoTicC, are you here for copieing ideas again?!" or "Hey ExXoTicC, is your server to boring that you have to play here?" 100 times. BUT i never ever and ever did anything against Vita. Its just because i'm wearing the 4 letters in fron of my name..
      Hier bin ich eig. voll und ganz deiner Meinung.
      Ich finde der "Hass" wie ihn hier manche nennen , nicht auf alle Vita Member übergehen sollte.
      Ich meine , was kann ein normaler Member , welcher vorher vllt noch nie auf einem anderen Server gezockt hat außer Vita , denn dafür , was Sebi oder andere machen.
      Hier sollte man ganz klar unterscheiden und nicht alle verallgemeinern.

      :flag-gb:

      At this Point your are right.
      Cause , what should the Member of Vita do , if the Scripters are copy some parts of our Script.
      I mean , they are only Racing and having fun.
      Das blöde an Zitaten aus dem Internet ist , dass man nie weiß ob sie wahr sind ...

      Leonardo da Vinci

      [img]http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/weqayr7r/awesome_011.png[/img]
      Maybe you already noticed that those words can just come from Cheetah, but :

      Why are you doing dis ?
      I mean both sides, why don't you just ignore the people who you don't like and everything's ok
      They have made something what Neon also have ? Just make jokes about it (in mumble or anywhere :b)
      but why there is this "war" between you needed
      Just because Vita is a group of people of Neon who made their own project and that stuff ?

      Please, just keep chillin'

      peace, Cheeto
      The following sentence should describe everything about Sebihunter: "That's a really nice idea Bass, but Sebi will steal it anyway, so it won't be a special feature that long." (quoted from Mumble)
      Maybe you can understand us now.

      I think we can close the topic, as the most of us won't change their opinion about Sebihunter and his clan, so this won't change anything I think.
      Well, If there can't be peace, we (everyone) have to exept it like that
      I don't realy like Vita too, but when I said I don't like "Vita", I meaned "Sebihunter and his whole Community-system"
      (not just the clansystem, because the copypasting already went over the "clan-line", hope u understood whut I mean)
      I don't have anything against some clanmembers, because I don't know 75 % of them, the other 25% are Neon-exmembers.
      They just went to the community where they feels good when they want to play MTA and wanna act in any kind and whise in
      a Clan/Community, If they like it, why not, even when it is an 80% Neon-copypaste-result.

      hereby I just wanted to make clear that I don't like Vita, but I also wanted to make my personal definition about "Vita" clear,
      exactly what I mean when I say "Dis I Dislike"

      Cheetah wrote:

      Rey wrote:

      But I like it that Sebi is writing a new script which won't be like neon. (I hope)
      I will first belive that when I see it, anyways when I will play anytime on Vita (even just 1 time xd)
      But yes, It's rly strange
      Vita has "Divisions", strange, makes me remember "Sections"
      The only difference between Vita and Neon I can clearly see
      is a RPG-server
      Vita initially copied my system. Divisions were called Sections before, Sebi just renamed them so it's not that obvious and looks like an own idea. Vita's system is more or less a slightly customized “lite” version of Neon's so you could kind of refer to Vita as “Neon Lite”, although that's almost an insult against Neon.

      ExXoTicC wrote:

      The problem is when u say than sth like "You guys are copying everything" than u mean Sebi, not us.. and where the fuck in the world is the reason to hate us (members) when we never did anything? I mean you hate goes to us all from vita, also me. For example i'm joining the Neon Server and for an half hour i didnt wrote anything.. but in this half hour i read sth like "Hey ExXoTicC, are you here for copieing ideas again?!" or "Hey ExXoTicC, is your server to boring that you have to play here?" 100 times. BUT i never ever and ever did anything against Vita. Its just because i'm wearing the 4 letters in fron of my name..
      Be proud of those four letters in front of your name or don't. It's your decision, but if you use them people will react on that. Vita is one of the most hated clans here in Neon and so will it's members be. If you don't want that, leave Vita or let the tag away (although people might know that you're in Vita anyway). It's your own problem if you choose to join a clan many don't like. Iirc Neon members have similar problems on FFS or the like. Maybe your clan leader should stop acting like a copy-kiddie and then we'll maybe start to respect Vita. Not me, though, I think I will hate Sebi forever. He's a very bad person with a disgusting egoistic and egocentric character (he would totally fit to those Microsoft-fuckers, they act exactly like him (or vice versa?) - maybe that's why he's such a fanboy of them).

      ExXoTicC wrote:

      Maybe its because we can see this from another perspective. Sometimes we already talked about a idea 1 or 2 month before it will be released. Then in this 1 or 2 months Neon also made the same idea in any Update but Sebi already made a script but didnt release the idea yet.
      That often happens. But many things in Vita are very obviously copied. Sorry, but I'm not stupid.
      Well at first I want to say that I am personally not having this "hate" against Vita and I also want to apologize again for our Kiddie members, which were spamming your server. They are not representing Neon in any way, at least in the way how I see this clan...

      The problem is really what Firzen already said and what I also mentioned some time ago, there's a difference from:
      • getting inspired by other people, grounding your own project on that, use the benefits of the idea and create a whole new and better thing
      • and seeing an idea, build it in your project, look again and repeat this step until it's equal, then rename it (e.g.: Sections -> Divisions | Fun Server -> Minigames Fun Server | Nero -> Vero | Rocket Tournament -> Rocket War), then release it AND finally (also one of the important points but often not even noticed) begin to present it like "Hey! Look out I did something new, which I totally made by myself and which is so cool" and pretend that it was all your work... because that's actually the point where people like me finally begin to rage....

      So personally I don't hate anyone for no reason, I only base my opinions about people about what they're doing and not which clan-tag they use, so I don't hate Vita or its members by definition, but if someone is acting like an asshole, then he also shouldn't wonder about hateful reactions aswell...
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      Post by “MrJake” ()

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